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But what I think is one of the really significant things about this, He stayed incorruptible, as did Omar Torrijos. From an economic Amy, is that this law firm has taken this on, not pro bono, but they ‘it man perspective, this was very disturbing, because not only did I expect if they win the case, which they expect to do, to make a lot of now I was likely to fail at my job but I knew that, if I failed, money out of it, which is a philosophical decision. It isn't because something dire was going to happen: the jackals would come in, they wanted to get rich off this. It's because they want to encourage and they would either overthrow these men or assassinate them. other law firms to do similar things in Nigeria and in Indonesia and And in both cases, these men were assassinated, I have no doubt. in Bolivia, in Venezuela and many other places. So they want tosee They died in airplane crashes two months apart from each other in a business grow out of this, of law firms going in and defending 981: single plane—their own private planes crashed. poor people, knowing that they can get a payoff from the big AG: Explain more of what happened with Omar Torrijos. companies who have acted so terribly, terribly, terribly irresponsibly JP: Well, Omar, again, was very stalwartly standing up to the in the past. United States, demanding that the Panama Canal should be owned And Steve Donziger, the attorney, an American attorney with very y Panamanians. And I spent a lot of time with Torrijos, and I liked good credentials...I was in Ecuador with him just two weeks ago, him very, very much as an individual. He was extremely and one of the very touching things he said was: "I've seenalotof charismatic, extremely courageous and very nationalistic about companies make mistakes and then try to defend themselves in law wanting to get the best for his people. And I couldn't corrupt him. I courts." tried everything I could possibly do to bring him around. And as I And he said: "That's one thing. But in this was failing, I was also very concerned that case, Texaco didn't make mistakes. This was something would happen to him. And sure done with intent. They knew what they were enough—it was interesting that Jaime Roldds's doing. To save a few bucks, they killed a lot of plane crashed in May, and Torrijos got his people." "And basically what you family together and said: "I'm probably next, And now they're going to be forced to pay . . but I'm ready to go. We've now got the Canal for that, to take responsibility for that, and do Is you tell them: turned over." He had signed a treaty with hopefully open the door ‘0 make many ‘Look, you know, if you Timmy Carter to get the Canal in Panamanian companies take responsibility for the wanton ands. He said: "I've accomplished my job, destruction that's occurred. play our game...I can and I'm ready to go now." And he had a dream AG: Let's talk about Latin America and its make sure that you get about being ina plane that hit a mountain. And leaders, like Jaime Roldés. Talk about him and . ' within two months after it happened to Rold6s, his significance. You wrote about him in your very rich. lf you don t it happened to Torrijos also. first book, Confessions of an Economic Hit | r me, if AG: And you met with both these men? Man. p ay ou ga e, you JP: Yes, I'd met with both of them. JP: Yeah, Jaime Rold6és was an follow your campaign AG: What were your conversations like? JP: Well, especially with Torrijos, I spent a lot of time with him in some amazing man. After many years of military dictators in Ecuador—US puppet dictators—there was a democratic promises, you may go the way of...all these election and one man, Jaime Roldos, ran presidents that we've formal meetings and also at cocktail on a platform that said Ecuadorian . parties and barbecues—he was big on resources ought to be used to help the either overthrown or things like that—and was constantly Ecuadorian people—and specifically oil, which at that time was just coming in. This was in the late "70s. And I was sent to Ecuador, and I was also sent at the same time to Panama to work with Omar Torrijos, to bring these men around, to corrupt them...change their minds. You know, in the case of Jaime Roldés, trying to get him to come around to our side and letting him know that if he did, he and his family would get some very lucrative contracts, would become very wealthy, and, you know, warning him. And he didn't really need much warning, because he knew what would be likely to happen if he didn't. And his attitude was: assassinated." he won the election by a landslide, and now he started to put into "I want to get done what I can in my lifetime, and then so be it." action his policy, his promises, and was going to tax the oil And it's been interesting, Amy, that since I wrote the book companies. If they weren't willing to give much more of their Confessions... Marta Rold6s, who's Jaime's daughter, has come to profits back to the Ecuadorian people, then he threatened to the United States to meet with me, and I just spent time with her in nationalise them. So I was sent down, along with other economic hit | Ecuador. She is now a member of parliament in Ecuador, just men—I played a fairly minor role in that case and a major one in elected, and she married Omar Torrijos's nephew. And it's really Panama with Torrijos—but we were sent into these countries to get interesting to hear their stories about what was going on—she was these men to change their policies, to go against their own campaign _ seventeen at the time her parents died; her mother was also in the promises. plane, and the two of them died in that plane—and then to hear her And basically what you do is you tell them: "Look, you know, if talk about how her husband, Omar's nephew, was in that meeting you play our game, I can make you and your family very healthy. I when the family was called together and Omar said: "I'm probably can make sure that you get very rich. If you don’t play our game, if _ next, but I'm ready to go. I've done my job. I've done what I could you follow your campaign promises, you may go the way of Allende _do for my people. So I'm ready to go, if that's what has to happen." in Chile or Arbenz in Guatemala or Lumumba in the Congo." On AG: So, what were your conversations at the time with other so- and on—we can list all these presidents that we've either overthrown called economic hit men? I mean, you became the chief [economist] or assassinated because they didn't play our game. But Jaime would _at Charles Main. not come around, Jaime Roldés. JP: Right. Well, you know, when I was with other people—we NEXUS +13 assassinated." AUGUST - SEPTEMBER 2007 www.nexusmagazine.com