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A: Yes. You are dealing with correlations most of the time. back it up. Correlations are not perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose Q: Andrew Wakefield, the British MD who uncovered the link children have suffered neurological damage during a one-year between the MMR vaccine and autism, has just been fired from period after having a vaccine, this should be sufficient to spark off his job in a London hospital. an intense investigation. A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great service. His correlations Q: Has it been enough? between the vaccine and autism are stunning... A: No. Never. This tells you something right away. Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity, stating publicly that he Q: Which is...? will not take a vaccine, is committing career suicide. A: The people doing the investigation are not really intereste A: Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. in looking at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. There are several reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor So, when they do investigate, they invariably come up with exon- who is famous can draw a huge amount of publicity if he says erations of the vaccines. They say, "This vaccine is safe". But anything. In 1992, I was present at your demonstration against what do they base those judgements on? They base them on defi- the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One or two actors spoke nitions and ideas which automatically rule out a condemnation of against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard pressed to the vaccine. find an actor who has spoken out in any way against the medical Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has cartel. failed, where people have come down with the disease against Q: Within the National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, which they were vaccinated. what is the basic frame of mind? A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the evidence A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing is simply ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say they think about is challenging the status quo. They are already in anything at all, that this is just an isolated situation but overall the an intramural war for that money. They don't need more trouble. vaccine has been shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vac- This is a very insulated system. It depends on the idea that, by cine campaigns where damage and and large, modern medicine is very suc- disease have occurred, you realise cessful on every frontier. To admit sys- that these are not isolated situations. temic problems in any area is to cast "Researchers should be loubt on the whole enterprise. Competing interests probing to discover a kind of You might therefore think that NIH is Q: Did you ever discuss what we map, or flow chart, which the last place one should think about are talking about here with holding demonstrations. But just the colleagues when you were still shows exactly what vaccines reverse is true. If five thousand people working in the vaccine showed up there demanding an account- establishment? do in the body from the ing of the actual benefits of that research A: Yes, I did. moment they enter. This system, demanding to know what real Q: What happened? " health benefits have been conferred on A: Several times I was told to research has not been done. the public from the billions of wasted eep quiet. It was made clear that I dollars funnelled to that facility, some- should go back to work and forget thing might start. A spark might go off. my misgivings. On a few occasions I You might get, with further demonstra- encountered fear. Colleagues tried to avoid me. They felt they tions, all sorts of fallout. Researchers, a few, might start leaking could be labelled with "guilt by association". All in all, though, I information. ehaved myself. I made sure I didn't create problems for myself. Q: A good idea. Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given? A: People in suits standing as close to the buildings as the police A: First of all, there is no "if". They do harm. It becomes a will allow. People in business suits, in jogging suits, mothers and more difficult question to decide whether they do harm in those babies. Well-off people. Poor people. All sorts of people. people who seem to show no harm. Then you are dealing with the Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number of ind of research which should be done, but isn't. Researchers vaccines given to babies these days? should be probing to discover a kind of map, or flow chart, which A: Itis a travesty anda crime. There are no real studies of any shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment depth which have been done on that. Again, the assumption is they enter. This research has not been done. As to why they are made that vaccines are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines given, we could sit here for two days and discuss all the reasons. given together is safe as well. But the truth is, vaccines are not As you've said many times, at different layers of the system peo- safe. Therefore the potential damage increases when you give ple have their motives: money, fear of losing a job, the desire to many of them in a short time period. win brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided ideal- Q: Then we have the fall flu season. ism, unthinking habit, and so on... A: Yes. As if only in the autumn do these germs float into the Q: The furore over the hepatitis B vaccine seems one good US from Asia. The public swallows that premise. If it happens in avenue. April, it is a bad cold. If it happens in October, it is the flu. A: I think so, yes. To say that babies must have the vaccine Q: Do you regret having worked all those years in the vaccine and then, in the next breath, admitting that a person gets hepatitis field? B from sexual contacts and shared needles is a ridiculous A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a little less. And I juxtaposition. Medical authorities try to cover themselves by work in other ways. I give out information to certain people when saying that 20,000 or so children in the US get hep B every year _I think they will use it well. from "unknown causes", and that's why every baby must have the vaccine. I dispute that 20,000 figure and the so-called studies that Continued on page 8 map, or flow chart, which shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment they enter. This research has not been done." 14 = NEXUS "Researchers should be probing to discover a kind of Continued on page 80 www.nexusmagazi ne.com FEBRUARY — MARCH 2006