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THE MYSTERY OF THE 120-MILLION-YEAR-OLD MAP An Interview with Professor Alexander Chuvyrov by Adriano Forgione. © 2002 THE MYSTERY OF THE system like that of China. Between 1998 _ tions and etchings that it was impossible to 120-MILLION-YEAR-OLD MAP and 1999 we made a screening of all the reproduce them on paper. Furthermore, the An Interview with storage rooms of the museums of the area. notes spoke of two stelae located 12 kilo- Professor Alexander Chuvyrov We found a certain number of seals and metres from the first location. We called by Adriano Forgione © 2002 inscriptions on ornaments and pottery that the area of those documents Pisanicy—a news that a 3-D map going back to 120 oldest Chinese language that uses Jiaguwen petroglyphs. At that point, we had enough million years ago had been discovered characters. It was a great discovery. The material to go on with our investigation, so, in Chandar, a village in Russia [see Jiaguwen inscriptions suggest that the at the end of 1999, we started looking for NEXUS vol. 9, no. 4]. The discoverer, Chinese arrived in western Russia in ancient _ the six slabs. Alexander Nikolaevich Chuvyrov, _ times, and that was hitherto unknown. AF: How did you find the first slab Professor of Physics at the University of During the summer of 1998, we wrote a__ without further clues? Bashkiria in Ufa, Russia, shocked journal- systematic catalogue of all the findings and AC: In the beginning, we started out ists and scientists around the world by we were amazed to find out that local peo- _ with telephoto lenses and helicopters, but proposing that incredible dating. The map _ ple spoke the Chinese language up to the _ we didn't find anything. I guided six fruit- should therefore confirm the existence of 20th century. At the moment we know that less expeditions, then I thought to contact an advanced civilisation during anerain there are more than 600,000 such inscrip- the elder of Chandar, a nearby village. I which giant reptiles dominated the world. _ tions in the archives, and it will take amas- met him where Schmitt made his expedi- In fact, the first hominid, the Proconsul, _ sive effort from the philologists to examine tion in the 1920s. He showed me some dates back to 20 million years ago. Such a them all. During the two years of our pro- objects that Schmitt and other archaeolo- dating, if confirmed, could rewrite the his- ject, we were looking for a stone library _ gists had left at his place. When I asked tory of mankind and give credit to the sup- like those found in Mongolia, Japan and him if he knew anything about the stone porters of the great antiquity of our species. Singapore. We tried to figure out what we _ slabs we were looking for, he replied that I was surprised by the fact that Chuvyrov should have looked is an academic, an esteemed scholar— for, and then we something that gives a certain value to decided to follow a what was written in the press releases. line: we noticed that There was only one way to look into the archaeologists and matter and answer all the doubts that arose historians believed from this news: invite Professor Chuvyrov that what we saw as to Italy for a conference. That's what I did. Chinese characters What follows is the transcript of my inter- were in fact orna- view with him. ments or drawings. So I decided to look Adriano Forgione (AF): Professor for all the etchings, Chuvyrov, how did you get involved in ornaments or draw- this research? ings on megaliths. Alexander Chuvyrov (AC): The find- At the end of 1999, ing was fortuitous, like most of the findings in the archives we in the scientific world. I was studying with found a list of the my research team the cultural identity of monuments of the the peoples of the Urals. We were trying to southern Urals com- work out the historical frame of these peo- piled between 1920 ples, who left visible tracks all over Russia, and 1921. The texts from the 15th century backwards since _ were notes by the sci- there is no systematic study of the subject. entists who were Unfortunately, I couldn't find a super- studying the matter at partes director for the project because all that time. In those the experts I contacted were too much notes we found influenced by their own ideas or those of important clues as to their colleagues. So I decided to take the the existence of six leadership of my project for myself. carved stones of the AF; In which circumstances did you Ufinca or Karadele find the stone? River area—the AC: The aim of the project was the "Black River" in the finding of written records belonging to local language. peoples of the southern Urals. We were Those stones were exploring the possibility that one of these described as having The stone slab map, photographed in a room at the Ufa Museum. ethnic groups kept an archive or chancellery such intricate decora- (Photo courtesy of Professor Alexander Chuvyrov and HERA Magazine) [: late April 2002, Pravda released the _ were, in the majority of cases, written inthe Russian name that indicates a place with Adriano Forgione (AF): Professor Chuvyrovy, how did you get involved in this research? Alexander Chuvyrov (AC): The find- ing was fortuitous, like most of the findings in the scientific world. I was studying with my research team the cultural identity of the peoples of the Urals. We were trying to work out the historical frame of these peo- ples, who left visible tracks all over Russia, from the 15th century backwards since there is no systematic study of the subject. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a super- partes director for the project because all the experts I contacted were too much influenced by their own ideas or those of their colleagues. So I decided to take the leadership of my project for myself. AF: In which circumstances did you find the stone? AC: The aim of the project was the finding of written records belonging to peoples of the southern Urals. We were exploring the possibility that one of these ethnic groups kept an archive or chancellery JUNE — JULY 2003 NEXUS = 61 The stone slab map, photographed in a room at the Ufa Museum. (Photo courtesy of Professor Alexander Chuvyrov and HERA Magazine) www.nexusmagazine.com