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no one will never be able to live there or it will be a closed area. We're developing the technology now, and I don't mind talking about it because Popular Science came awfully close to the truth here a few months ago in one of their issues and I don't think they even knew it. The Air Force in cooperation with the Department of Defense is developing an aircraft now that will go to speeds in excess of 10,000 mph, which is almost fast enough to achieve orbit without boosters. And that is a nuclear-powered thrust sys- tem. Whether or not that will ever become public or not, it's hard to tell, because nuclear engines are very dirty—very dirty. - ‘We're developing the technology now, and I don't mind talking Question: Who's the boss? How did you get hired? about it because Popular Science came awfully close to the truth Answer: That was a mundane process. I went out there... here a few months ago in one of their issues and I don't think they Question: Was it the Department of Defense? even knew it. The Air Force in cooperation with the Department Answer: At the time it was the Atomic Energy Commission of Defense is developing an aircraft now that will go to speeds in when I was hired. And then it became the Energy Research and excess of 10,000 mph, which is almost fast enough to achieve Development Administration and then it became Department of orbit without boosters. And that is a nuclear-powered thrust sys- Energy; the government keeps changing the name. I was there tem. Whether or not that will ever become public or not, it's hard during the visit of two Presidents of the United States: Lyndon to tell, because nuclear engines are very dirty—very dirty. Johnson was one of them, Gerald Ford was the other one. Neither one of them was shown certain things. The President does not STRANGE SIGHTS IN THE DESERT have Top Secret clearance. The only other things I can tell you about Area 51 is that there Question: Do you agree or disagree with that? will never, in our lifetimes, be any information let out about some Answer: That's a tough one. We live in a republic, a democra- of the things that are out there. I will say that it has become a tic republic, supposedly. I don't trust most politicians, however, storage area for oddities. That's where, other than Kirtland Air not because they're dishonest, necessarily. Nuclear weapons are a Force Base, the Roswell debris was supposedly taken. All I can very terrible thing. I'm ambivalent about it. I don't know. The say is that some time, during my tenure at the Nevada Test Site, time when Lyndon Johnson came out there, we tracked him there was debris from Roswell, New Mexico, stored away at Area through an area that was hot. None of us had anti-contamination 51. Iwas lucky enough or unlucky enough to see some of it. I clothing on; we had no instruments; we were dressed just like this. don't take any pleasure in that knowledge because it puts a con- We let him walk through a contaminated area because it wasn't straint on me I don't like to have. supposed to be contaminated. That's Question: Could you describe all I can say about that. what you saw concerning the Roswell . Question: These things you can't debris? The only other things l can talk about, in your opinion, do you Answer: No. I'll tell you why, t Il b t A 51 . th t feel they would cause mass hysteria? folks. I don't know if any of you have € you abou rea Is tha You seem calm. been to Leavenworth, Kansas, or not, there will never, In our lifetimes, Answer: No, it doesn't bother me, but that's where the federal prison is. . . I have this belief. We have alread: It's hot, it's humid and I have no be any information let out been to the Moon, okay? Big deal. desire Whatsoever 10 80. about some of the things It's not going to be too many more still have a real, legitimate respect years until humans will be to Mars for the Department of Defense securi- that are out there. and beyond. It's a matter of propul- ty. When you leave out there, they debrief you. And the debriefing last- people to the point where they can ed quite a few hours, the better part of live in space for long periods of time, a day, and the bottom line was, "Don't talk or else". That was the either in suspended animation or whatever, so they don't come bottom line. And they gave you a list of things not to talk about. apart, mentally or physically. We have the technology to literally I have not violated any of those this afternoon. Since I left out explore the solar system right now—the planets that are in the sion systems; it's a matter of getting there, I don't believe I ever have. I'm very careful about it. vicinity of us. And so it's not a big thing. It doesn't take much of Question: I lived near an Air Force base and I used to see a leap. unusual things flying about. Are these things terrestrial or Quantum physics tells you accurately that the speed of light is extraterrestrial? not a speed which, beyond it you cannot go. That old theory is Answer: Well, a group of fellows and I were on our way to gone. Quantum physics says that you may go faster than the work one night to the test site. We saw something that to this speed of light. If that's true, which it is, then travel to the nearest day...this was an aircraft of some sort, aircraft being defined as an stars is possible. If we, who are barely out of the primeval mud, object in the atmosphere that is moving around. There were six of as beings can do this, it doesn't take much; it's very logical to us, we were all trained observers, we were not the type of people assume that there are other life-forms out there somewhere. who see things go bump in the night. I'm pretty sceptical about We're not unique. Good Lord, if we are, it's not much of a testi- things, generally. That aircraft that we saw land, which was next mony, is it? There are other life-forms, certainly...nothing that I to the test site, did some things that, with the technology we had saw surprised me. then and probably with the technology we have now, were impos- What surprises me is the government's paranoia about what the sible to do. We saw it, I saw it...the five other fellows with me, government knows. Consider the fact that the federal government we stopped the car and got out and watched it for 15 to 20 min- won't even tell you the truth about the budget process, let alone utes. I have no idea what it was. anything else. I had access to and was privy to a lot of classified information; Question: There are some who believe we're already on Mars. for instance, the SR-71 was a commonplace aircraft to us, and yet Answer: Well, I don't think so. the general public knew nothing about it. But it came in and went Question: Go back to the question of who's the boss. and it made a lot of noise—that's the only thing I didn't like about Answer: Well, during the time I was out there, one of the boss- it. It came in hot and it left hot. It came in over the speed of es was Edward Teller. Edward Teller is the father of the hydro- sound and it left at the speed of sound. So it was always making gen bomb. He worked for Lawrence Radiation Laboratory. He's this horrible noise. That was a very common thing to see. Some still alive, and he's as close to being a "god" in the scientific com- of the other things I saw were uncommon. munity and the nuclear weapons community as anybody on this be any information let out about some of the things 1 a APRIL — MAY 2003 NEXUS +57 POWER AND POWERBROKERS that are out there. www. nexusmagazine.com