Nexus - 0212 - New Times Magazine-pages

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tions, slow down bank transfers, put in a computer that a credit card is no good. Just imagine, all you have is your American Express card, and you're stuck somewhere around the world and the computer shows that your card is no good! Simple as that. And then when you complain three weeks later, “sorry, mistake.". But in the meantime, for three weeks you were in trouble. GK: I have been told that the National Crime Authority in Australia is setting up a database to monitor every single bank transaction over $5,000. I suppose that system might be useful for this purpose as well? through various computcr companies owned by Robert Maxwell. The Americans on the other hand did it through a company called Hadron, based in the United States, owned by the owner of UPI (United Press International), a fellow by the name of Earl Brian. He used to be Reagan’s Secretary of Welfare and Health in California, when Reagan was governor. Then he was working for the intelligence services. Basically his companies were “attached” to the CIA. The CIA was marketing it for the National Security Agency. One of the Maxwell companies sold it to the GRU (Soviet Military Intelligence) and that was bugged. The West knew what was going on in that theatre faster than the Russians. Another example. South Africa. Great place. It was given to them without the bug. It was set up through a company called Degem, owned by Maxwell. This program tracked ANC (African National Congress) people, and what came out of the computer was handed to the Buthelezi people (Inkatha) and then you had “black- on-black" violence. GK: And meanwhile, was this being monitored by the US as well? B-M: Yes. It’s funny you know, there was also a terminal in Pretoria that was used by the South African Military Intelligence, and the U Embassy and that place share a wall, so... GK: How widespread is the use of Promis in other countries? B-M: It’s quite widespread. Most of the Western allies have it. The Australians have it, the British have it, as we said the South Africans have it, the Nicaraguans have it, even the Guatemalans. The ex-East Bloc countries have it too. I believe that since 1990 most of them have checked it for bugs, but they still use it. MI5, MI6, the Russians. GK: Who is using it in Australia? f B-M: ASIO (The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation). GK: Do you know who installed Promis in Australia? B-M: YesI do. It was Hadron. Each bureaucrat, or each guy that runs some section of a listening . agency wants his empire to grow, and it grows and goes out of control. B-M: It’s the same database by the way. They just got a con- densed version of Promis. It’s not called Promis, but once the pro- gram is out... GK: How much of a connection is there between intelligence agencies and banks or other private organisations that hold exten- sive and sensitive computer records? B-M: Well, I think what happens is that the intelligence agen- cies become the centre of all of it. You know, the banks monitor the money, other guys monitor stuff, but the incesligmna agencies put it all together. GK: So they have access to banking records? B-M: Oh sure. They have access to everything. This is why a lot of countries love the idea of ID cards, because this way it makes things easier. Or they use a social security number or tax file num- ber. Initially the idea was to do it all through law enforcement and that kind of thing, but since it didn’t work, because of parliament or congress or whatever, they just had to do it through the back door. It’s the same thing, and again, it’s governments and bureaucracies trying to control everybody’s lives. GK: When you look at all the intelligence gathering capabilities, surveillance, eavesdropping, tracking, monitoring and so on, it seems that they are all evolving and interlocking more and more. Is it steamrolling out of control? B-M: Yes, yes. I’ve always said this. It is getting out of con- trol. I mean, suddenly you have everything being monitored. Honcgihsa GK: Could the use of Promis be seem as a threat to privacy of the general public? B-M: Sure. That’s what it’s all about. GK: So it couldn’t be written off as something that’s just there to monitor terrorist groups and so on? It’s a matter of monitoring people that are getting in the way of the government, keeping everybody in line. a B-M: Sure. That’s what they say. But what’s a terrorist? I mean what is national security, what is all this? It’s a matter of monitoring people that are getting in the way of the government, keeping everybody in line. Once you have this technology and you know everything every- body else is doing, or whomever you want to follow ... you can basically control other people that way. You can put in disinfor- mation, do all kinds of things, block bank transfers, you know, stop people doing things or make sure they don’t have money, or their money doesn’t come through on time, and so on. There's so much that can be done with this information. Simple things. You don’t have to be very sophisticated. Cancel reserva- GK: Do we need it? I mean, what are they going to do with all this information? B-M: Who knows. But it’s bureaucracy. Everybody loves it. Each bureaucrat, or each guy that runs some section of a listening agency wants his empire to grow, and it grows and goes out of con- trol. Remember that intelligence bureaucracies are just like every- thing else, they get over zealous. I sometimes wonder, how the United States government ... I mean, $600 million for a stealth bomber. One stealth bomber! With $600 million you could clean up Los Angeles and all its homeless. But you know, "security", “defence”, "he communists are coming". But I guess the communists aren't coming any more. We need to find a new enemy. (Cynical.) NEXUS¢13 FEBRUARY-MARCH '93