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185 with them, but WE have to make the connection. Otherwise these other higher dimensions, that are seeking to help us and of which we are a part, would have to come into the wavelength of fear to connect with us-which would actually defeat the object of the whole thing. Martin: You continually use the term "problem, reaction, solution". For those readers who are not aware what that is, would you explain? Icke: It's the most powerful mass-manipulation technique that has been used over thousands of years to advance this agenda to central, globalized control of all institutions of our lives. Kosovo, Bosnia, all of these different manipulated wars and problems-the Oklahoma City bombing, people going crazy with guns around the world, in schools and stuff, these are classic expressions of this. If you want to introduce something like gun control, I think on gun control we got manipulated into the wrong debate. Whether guns are good, or whether guns are bad is actually a debate worth having, but it's not the crucial debate at this moment because what's happened by pulling us into this debate of "are guns good or are guns bad?" is that it has actually diverted people from the debate which we should actually be having in light of these events-which is why we have this pattern all over the world. Because I travel a lot, I tell you, it's happening everywhere, people going crazy with guns, shooting people in the streets or schools, and then immediately legislation being proposed to take guns out of circulation. People should remember that gun laws were introduced in Germany just before Hitler started filling concentration camps. I don't have guns. I wouldn't use guns. I'm not into guns. I don't see the point in meeting violence with violence because you get twice the violence. But we need to get street wise. Some people would use guns, and on the face of it, it will be easier to take over an unarmed population than an armed population, on the face of it. That's not actually true, but on the face of it that appears to be true. And, therefore, what better than taking guns out of circulation before you've had your final coup, if you like. So, "problem, reaction, solution" overcomes the situation in which, if you introduced what you want to introduce, openly, then you know that it would be so unpopular that you would get tremendous resistance to it. For instance, if you wanted to give more power to the police, more power to the military, more power to stop and search, more power to go into your homes without permission, etc., and you did that openly without any of this other incentive-manipulation, there'd be tremendous resistance from people who say, "This is a global, fascist state!" or "This is a fascist country! You mustn't do this; we're not having it!" So "problem, reaction, solution" overcomes this. It's a brilliant technique, very simple, and it means that not only do you avoid such opposition, you actually manipulate people who would normally oppose what you want, to see it as the only solution to the problems that have been created and demand you introduce it. So, in Stage One, you create a problem. You make sure, however, someone else is blamed for it-a Timothy McVeigh, a Lee Harvey Oswald, President Milosevic, and all this stuff-you create a problem. You could create a war, as in Bosnia or Kosovo, you could create a "terrorist" bombing, a government collapse, an economic collapse, or whatever, a run on Wall Street, anything. You then get your problem, which you've covertly created, to be reported through your media in the way you want the people to perceive it. So, you report the Oklahoma City bombing as if it was due to a couple of guys in a barn somewhere who produced this fuel-fertilizer device which, of course, independent bomb experts have said couldn't possibly have caused that damage in the building. You then glean, as a result of this, the demand that "something must be done!" "What are they going to do about it?" "We can't have this; do something!" And so you've now had Stage One-create the problem. And you've also, at this point, had Stage Two-the public reaction: "Do something!" That