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178 And so this is-then you look, of course, at the ancient world, and you start to see constant references to serpents and the serpent race. Not that all references are literal-I mean, there's the serpent symbolism that's used massively-but when you get, like, the Nagas, the gods of the ancient Hindu religion, who were said to be able to take human OR reptilian form, and then, while this is going on, Rick, I thought, "I'm sure Cathy O'Brien mentioned bloody reptiles in [her candid and shocking book, with Mark Phillips, called] Trance-formation Of America." Martin: Yes. Icke: I got a copy of that, started flipping through the index, looking for reptiles, thinking, "My life is getting more bizarre by the minute." Martin: (Laughter) Icke: And, I'm going through the references in the book and, of course, Cathy talks in the book about being with George Bush and that George Bush-and she obviously took this to be part of the mind control, she took it to be a holographic image, it was part of the mind control- but when you put this other evidence together, well, hold on a minute. She talks about being with George Bush, and him saying that they were an extraterrestrial race that came from a "far off space place" who'd taken over the world, and no one realized it because they look human. But, she said, he changed in front of her into a reptile. She talked about being with the Bennett brothers, these politicians, political figures in America, and how they put her through a mind-control program in which they said they came from another dimension and they were inter-dimensional beings. And she had an experience during that time of seeing a White House cocktail party where everyone turned into bloody reptiles. And then she talks in the book about being with Miguel De La Madrid, in Mexico, who was, of course, President during the Bush years, and how he told her, she said in the book, the story of the Iguana race. And, Miguel De La Madrid said that an extraterrestrial reptilian race had interbred with the ancient Mexican people because they needed to create bloodlines or bodies they could work through, and these particular bloodlines could take either human or reptilian form. She says in the book that he actually shape-shifted, not totally, but facially, into a a c 1 uaa reptilian form when she was with him. Now, when you start putting all of this together, Rick-I have a simple philosophy-I follow information, and I'll go where it takes me. If you come from, anyone comes from, any belief or background, whether it be religious, political, or whatever, and they are rigid with it, then they're never going to uncover what's going on because that belief, that rigid belief, will start to edit information when it comes toward you, and you start editing-out information that's taking you away and challenging your original belief-system. Thaven't got any of that stuff, fortunately, and so I just follow information, and it's taken me into these areas. Interestingly, too-and I'm just going back there, so I'm going to do some more on this-when I was in South Africa, about February last year, I met a Zulu shaman, a famous Zulu shaman in South Africa. I met with him for about five hours about various things. He knew about the elite and the manipulation and the extraterrestrial connection, and all this stuff. He's in his 70s now, I mean, he's lived a long time in Africa, and is a very great expert on African legend and stories and experience. And he told me, during this chat, that he got a call in March of 1997-this is before the August when Diana died-and this caller said that she was the Princess of Wales and wanted to talk to him. Now, he didn't believe this, at first, and he certainly didn't believe it when she said to him that she was calling him from what, he termed, a supermarket phone. "Princesses don't call from supermarket phones," he thought. Well, when I talked to Christine Fitzgerald about two months later, her confidant, she said, "That makes absolute sense, because Diana knew that her phones at Kensington Palace were tapped, and when she wanted a clean line, she used to go into a local department store," to what this shaman would have been a supermarket, "to use the public phone to get a clean weoon line."