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SAGAN: Many of the principle advocates of UFO abduction seem to want the validation of science without submitting to its rigorous standards of evidence. When John Mack talks about parallel universes or other dimensions, he’s using scientific ideas. Those have long been in play in the Physics and Astronomy community. But, there is no evidence for them. He also criticizes the current paradigm that is the skeptical scientific method. But, this isn’t validated. We don’t believe it just out of prejudice; we believe it because it works. in NOVA: In the absence of hard physical evidence about alien abductions, what does science tell us about the plausibility of what these aliens are supposed to do? SAGAN: Well, if you look at the advan- tages in human technology in just the last few hundred years, the Voyager space- craft on its way to the stars, compared to what we knew in the time of Charle- magne, let’s say, that’s less than a thousand years. And the progress is simply stunning. So, if you postulate the existence of highly technical civilizations, thousands, much less millions of years in our future, unless the hypothesis strongly contradicts known laws of physics, I think you have to say it’s possible. So, travel at very high speeds between the stars, that’s by no means out of the question. Walking through walls is a little tough for me. I don’t see how it could be done. And the basic reading program idea of the alien abduction, the paradigm, they seem strangely backward in biology for all their advances in physics, if you take it seriously. Why are they doing breeding one on one at such a slow pace? Why not steal a few humans, sequence our DNA, look at variations and make whatever genetic engineering changes they want. We almost have the ability to do that. It seems naive in terms of molecular less than seems n biology. . Precisely because of human fallibility, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Now, I know that Budd Hopkins responds that extraordi- nary claims require extraordinary investigations. And I have two kinds of responses to that. There is a claim that a brontosaurus is tramping through the jungles today in the republic of Congo. Should a massive expedition be mounted with government funds to find it, or it is so implausible as not to be worth serious sustained systematic attention? And my second point is that to the extent that extraordinary claims require extraordinary investigations, those investigations must be true to the spirit of science. And that means highly skeptical, demanding, rigorous’ standards of evidence. And it’s not a hint of that from alien abduction enthusiasts ... I think that the alien abduction enthusiasts understand the need for physical evidence. It’s the pathway to some degree of respectability. And for 40 years, they’ve been telling us that real evidence is just around the corner, it’s about to be released, it’s being studied at this moment—and nothing ever comes of it. NOVA: Well, now we’ve run into this alleged alien abduction footage. Have you heard about this? What do you make of the film footage of this alleged animal a 9 not autopsy? SAGAN: I haven’t myself seen it, but I have talked in some detail with those who have, and I’ve read an analysis in the Times of London. There are several things to notice. One is that the creature in question has a strong resemblance to the alien abduction paradigm, although with six fingers on each hand. It is dissected in a movie taken with lots of blocking of the body and numerous out of focus excursions by the camera. And _ the humans involved in the autopsy are all dressed in these 1950’s radiation suits which are covered head to toe and there’s out 43