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truth to the . . . abduction phenomenon, what in your opinion is the real signifi- cance of that? Why is this important? HOPKINS: Well, if this is true and I have at this point sadly no doubt that it is true, what that means is on the silliest level that we're not necessarily the top of the food chain. But, on the most profound level, it means that an intelligence which is a controlling intelligence, which can see into our mind, so to speak, which would mean a total end to the privacy that we each have inside our heads right now. That that intelligence, which possesses the technology that is staggering, is bound to ultimately be in control. Just as the Spanish were bound to somehow control the Aztecs. That’s the way things were slated. To think that it might be an end to Eden, so to speak, if we can look at our past as Eden, I’m sure the Aztecs thought of their past as Eden too before the Spanish arrived. If I can, you know, just guess what life might be like 20 or 30 or 40 years from now should this momen- tum continue, it’s a terrifying thought. Even though I don’t see the UFO occupants as evil or conquerors or anything of that sort—it’s nothing that simple. Still, control would be absolute if this finally comes to making themselves obvious, ending the covert. Even or NOVA: You state that the evidence for the reality of these abductions is over- whelming. Could you please briefly describe what the nature of that evidence is? HOPKINS: I think most dramatic are the physical marks on people’s bodies after these experiences. They fall into various types, but one very common one is what we call a scoop mark, which is a little round depression about the size of my thumb nail or a little smaller. As if a littlk—some sort of object or some sort of tool has just removed a layer of cells. Now, a person can be asleep at night and wake up in the morning with one of these things right on the front of the shin and it’s not bleeding. This can happen, of course, outside or whatever. But, these things are extremely similar. And they turn up absolutely overnight or after the experience ended. We don’t know why they’re there, but they happen over and over and over again. Another type is just a straight like surgical cut that can be anywhere from oh, a small inch or so, but down to maybe three and a half, four inches long. And there is very rarely any bleeding that results from these. And, another set of these marks can be simply large bruises, especially on the insides of the thighs, as if some kind of gynecological stirrups had been used or something of that sort. Again, if this happens during the night, the person goes to bed unmarked and wakes up with these various cuts or whatever I’ve described. And some of them are extremely dramatic in appear- ance. When people have gone to doctors— in one case a woman went to a doctor after one of these things turned up on her back after an abduction. And the doctor insisted that she’d had surgery because there were at regular intervals little extensions along the cut. And she said, “No, this is just what happened when I woke up.” That is one basic, dramatic piece of evidence. The second thing is, of course, a person will often find in the house signs that that person has been outside. In a particular case, for instance, a man woke up in the morning with the recollection that he had been outside. He remem- bered there were figures in the room. He remembered pieces of this experience. NOVA: David Jacobs has his theories of his meanings of the abductions, as does John Mack. What does Budd Hopkins think this all means? 15